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From: (///\ ulTRÅX \\\/)
Date: 09 Feb 1999
Time: 14:38:21
Remote Name: 209.240.200.45
Group: alt.discuss.webtv.hacking Date: Sat, Feb 6, 1999, 1:01pm From: ulTRAX@webtv.net (///\ ulTRÅX \\\/) Re: My apologies to the <missincali>
missincali wrote: "What I really want to know is why as E says that you guys hide new info and tricks from newbies or some of us with some experience." I answered this question in a post a few months ago. In essence if we had information that potentially could be misused by by malicious morons who just want to bomb people, would you want anyone to post it? If there was a way to remotely delete user accounts, would anyone want a sicko like Derek70 to get his slimey hands on it? If there was a way to hack accounts.... would you want it posted so any dangerous psychopath you ever got in to an argument could read your mail and find out where you live or get your phone number? If there was a method to get good inside info from WTV but posting it would alert them and close the security hole before it's was milked for all it could be.... would you trade never knowing that trick to possibliy get info you otherwise might never get at all? Even the person in question has stated that he does not consider himself irresponsible and is STILL witholding sensitive information. (BTW I'm not saying that to embarass him or expose the obvious internal contradiction in his own arguement. Though I do find it curious that while I have put 140+ hours trying to gather in one place as much information in one place as I can, but still protecting sensitive information as does the person in question, I'm accused not only of NOT sharing info but in fact collecting TOO much info and since it would be a my site, I'm a glory hog.... even if I give credit every chance I get... which is what's really wrong with me.. I stuck in some credit game blah blah, etc etc) Now since BOTH parties have admitted to witholding sensitive information, the question is where does one draw the line? I personally think he has done immense damage, not in releasing the Willies builds... who cares. But releasing the validated page was another matter. " When we could in general find something you guys cant,and dont give me that bullshit about webtv watching." If you get into the mind of WTV what they seem to be most concerend about is our ability to direct access WTV URLs. Maybe I'll repost all the tricks that have been taken away in the past two upgrades. The next upgrade will target at least 2 more methods we now use of direct accessing URLs. Now maybe it's an impossible task for WTV to ever prevent us from direct accessing URLs... afterall, this is a prime function of the browser. But I'm not willing to gamble on that assumption. But the methods tend to be getting less and less efficient. Hell, my HP was initially set up to not only instantly create a JS Code Reader, but to allow direct access to all the 1200-1300+ URLs that were going to be in the site. The plan was incredible.... but two of the Tricks it depended on were killed by the November 17 FUNK Upgrade. Next time a embed trick comes around that allows me to direct access WTV URLS from a HP.... I might decide it's best only shared privately, not posted. Just remember that this delimmna is not of our creation.... it's a natural byproduct of working in a hostile environment... "Why dont you share with some up and coming webtv hackers who dont even know where to begin." Like Isaid I don't think putting all my work into my Site can hardly be construed as an effort to "deprive" newbies and intermediates of information. Having as much in one location should actually speed up the learning process for all. But there are very real obstacles to collecting large amounts of information and attempting to put it in a usable format. I have been criticized for not releasing information (even though my site is by far the biggest site dedicated to WTV hacking yet). Last November 30 I answered why there were delays with my site: "..... did it ever occur to you that the reason I never made my HP public [speaking of pre-mid Nov] was because my plans were SO ambitious that the Site was just nowhere near ready? My Site was never going to be just another rip-off and rehash of older pages. Therefore it was going to take time to build from scratch. At last count I put well over 100 hours into it.... that was before the DRY ICE bullshit hit the fan. Even so, I had still not found and tested about 25% of the WTV URLs I still knew had to be out there.... then I decided to include Forms actions and elements, then WTV IPs, then the DNS names, then came the recreation of the Tricks pages project. Then some of my stuff got ripped off and I had to move a 100 page site TWICE... since DRY ICE threatened to delete the site. Not knowing if I should take him seriously, I finally just put it all in e-mail for safekeeping and inadvertanly sent in HTML instead of code form so I now have to restore that original code from [escaped characters]. At that point about half of what I did have on my pages... about 1200-1400 URLs/ Commands/etc were still not in any presentable form. All the time I was getting info from sources faster then I could verify it and my floor is littered with printouts because I had no more room in mail. I also hadn't cleared some of the material for release with the people who gave it to me. I had also an entire note pad filled with new things I still needed to add. Then all this was just mere listings of info with no narrative anaylsis. (then there's Tomb Raider 3 LOL) Then, days after the site had gone semi-public with several pages finished, the last [FUNK] downgrade ruined two key features for my Site: The JS code reader with instant access to the best collection of WTV URLs and commands. At that point I pulled the Main Index. The site would have been close to a hacking utility. I just posted the The Explore2 codes... it's as I left it last October.... a mess. Same with the flashrom page which has been up for a while but not in the form I want. I feel it is critical for people to see the codes themselves, organized so they can see patterns and possibly predict codes not yet found.... Why is this important? Take the spell check feature now being tested. WTV puts up pages only previewer pages have links to... but WE can access those pages if we can guess the URL. The more one sees of WTV codes...the bettter one is at predicting others. At some point one may see a pattern in several codes and something will click and we may have a way to write over the TV Logs or some such. Who Knows? "Im just trying to understand why you guys are so greedy with the tricks and info?" Greedy is a loaded term. But I hope this answers your questions.